This is a transcribed excerpt from the “Bitcoin Magazine Podcast”, hosted by P and Q. In this episode, they are joined by Rafa Cordon to talk about Ibex building a Lightning Network payment infrastructure and what he thinks the future holds for bitcoin.

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Q: It’s always interesting to see and have these conversations about the current use cases for bitcoin because there is a level of privilege, especially for Americans, when it comes to money. Then you turn around and leave America and you start to really see how and why they need money in real time.

In these interactions or in your own personal experience, are there things you would like to see further developed or offered for people to use their bitcoin?

Rafa Cordon: I think financial institutions are getting into bitcoin. That’s a big part of our sales or similar business efforts that are not onboarding individuals or small merchants, but onboarding these big companies that have millions of users on their app and just adding bitcoins. in an application like these.

There’s this trend right now of this thing called super apps. A super app is an app that does everything, like WeChat in China, KakaoTalk in Korea. There are several great apps coming in different countries. Our goal is to help these super app companies to integrate bitcoin into their apps and it’s a single effort you need to make to provide bitcoin exposure to around five million, 10 million people in a single store.

This is what we are focusing on and I think more and more financial institutions are becoming more comfortable with bitcoin every day, especially here in Guatemala, we are next to El Salvador. Many institutions are asking the question.

This is what must happen from a regulatory point of view. There is no legal definition of bitcoin in many countries. I think only El Salvador is the country that has a law that says what bitcoin is in a certain way. More details are needed, but there is like a legal definition of what bitcoin is. I think we need to define what bitcoin is from a legal perspective, not necessarily like laws passed by Congress, but things like case law, like having a history of interpretations of what bitcoin is . Then there is like a general idea from a legal point of view of what bitcoin is. I think that needs to happen in those countries so that more financial institutions feel comfortable there. But ultimately it’s about people, like how people are going to view bitcoin, how they’re going to use it.

We’re doing user research with people who are cashing in, and it’s been interesting to know how you need to change your mindset. I think all of us Bitcoiners have changed that mindset. It took us a long time, but we changed that mindset. So how can we change the mindset of millions of people all at once?

For example, we created a fake bitcoin wallet and showed it to people who heard the remittances. They received remittances and converted them into cash and one of the first things that came out was that the first comments were like, “Hey, don’t I need to create an account here? Like I don’t need to enter my email address and password? »

It was surprising. They were like, “Oh, I’m not sure I want to use it because I don’t trust it.” Because they are used to creating an account like a bank account, like a Facebook.

P: Oh, wow. It’s so interesting. Wait, then repeat that.

Cordon: It was surprising.

P: I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. You say that because people are so used to being KYC (following know-your-customer rules for giving out personal information), which I consider a crime, the fact that when someone wants to engage with financial services, they must be totally doxed to the services they use. You say that because your users didn’t have to, they were like, “I don’t know if I can trust this financial act.

Cord: Exactly. Exactly.

P: Wow! Dude, it’s fucked.

Cord: That’s right. That’s what I’m talking about, like changing a mental model. Because a lot of people who receive funding probably haven’t had a high school education or college or whatever.

They usually create an account. Most of them have a Facebook account or a Twitter account. “For any new service that I will use, I must create an account.” That’s the kind of logical reasoning and when you say, “Hey, you can just use it, receive bitcoins, you don’t need to create an account,” they’re like, “Um, wait a minute, What is that ? ”

It was an interesting thing, so we are thinking about how we can educate the user to break these paradigms that bitcoin allows. These are the things. Rather, they are things that have to somehow change in people’s psyches or mindsets or how they have been used to consume internet services in how Bitcoin works.